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Please show me from scripture how we know that our eternal destination is set at the time of death?
I've always been told that once you die, it's too late to believe on Jesus for salvation. But I started to wonder what verses in the Bible told us that. I could find only two verses that vaguely suggested this idea. They are:
And just as it is appointed for people to die once--and after this, judgment-- (Hebrews 9:27 HCSB)
This is the principle verse used in sermons to "prove" that there's no more chance after death. The problems for me are that, 1. This verse is talking about Jesus not having to offer Himself over and over again as a sacrifice. His one sacrifice was enough. 2. There is no reason whatsoever given here not to insert a second chance between death and judgment or genuine repentance (God is not deceived) after judgment. If this verse were supporting a number of other, more clear statements, it would be acceptable, but it must stand alone, so far as I can tell, and alone, it just isn't specific enough.
If the clouds are full, they will pour out rain on the earth; whether a tree falls to the south or the north, the place where the tree falls, there it will lie. (Ecclesiastes 11:3 HCSB)
This could be an obscure reference to the fate of a soul after death, but commentators don't agree on what it means.
I'm interested to hear your seriously considered thoughts on this, brothers and sisters. Thanks!
Paul, You're right; that's a good one. However, while the one who endures to the end will be saved, is he the only one who will be saved? What about the little tribal woman from the woodlands of India who's longed for the truth all her life and when she dies, she sees Jesus and loves Him instantly? What about her? Is our just and merciful Father going to torture her throughout eternity? Is He going to destroy her instead of torturing her, out of mercy? Is He going to accept her love? Which is it? I'm not trying to irritate you; I'm serious.
M'r:12:27: He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
Yes, He is, but the people Jesus was talking about here were the patriarchs. They had been physically dead for centuries. This is a good verse, but it's not talking about my question.
2Co:6:2: (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
The day we should accept salvation is always today. How is that different after someone dies? Not everyone gets the chances we've had. I simply can't see Jesus turning anyone away with a "Sorry, no heartbeat. You're too late." So yes, another good verse and I genuinely appreciate your looking it up for me. It isn't doing it, though. I don't think it proves that death is the dividing line.
E, in my fellowship we don't insult one another. We all come with our honest questions and thoughts and we discuss them together in the presence of the Lord, no matter whether we agree or disagree. There are no forbidden questions. And I have read and studied the bible all of my life -- ALL of it. I'm 52, so I've had a lot of time to work on it.
You said: The Soul that sinneth shall surely DIE
However: God was talking about not punishing the children for the fathers' sins. It had nothing to do with my question.
"ALL Sinnners shall go to hell upon death" -- The bible does not teach this. Sinners go to hell after the great white throne judgment.
"ALL Born again blood washed children of God will go to Heaven" In fact, God's children will inhabit the new earth with Him. You'll find this in Revelation 21-22.
"The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;"
Yes, King David was a wonderful poet, but I'm not sure what this has to do with my question.
"But he
Sorry, E. Not sure what happened to the rest of that. "Her guests are in hell . . ."
David is warning Solomon (Proverbs) not to sleep with harlots. This is poetry and the harlot's guests were probably still alive and hustling. Not what I'm looking for. As for the rest, it really doesn't pertain to the question. But thanks.
True, Robert, and thanks for sharing those. I don't think that really says it either, though. "This night your life will be required of you" . . . in other words, the rich man died before he could enjoy all that he'd stored up for himself. It speaks to all of us, I'm afraid. But it doesn't tell us that we can't receive Jesus after physical death, though we have no more chances to bless the poor at that point.
As for Lazarus and the rich man . . . The rich man is Israel, who had been given all the oracles of God but not shared them or been a light to the nations as was their mandate. Lazarus is the Gentile world who would soon be the recipient of the blessings of Abraham. The parable really makes a lot more sense that way. I always wondered how it could be about heaven and hell, talking about Abraham's bosom and Hades, and the rich man already in hell without having been judged, and Lazarus not a believer in Jesus. We miss it because we don't have the cultural reference. I had to have
I had to have someone help me with that one. I didn't figure it out myself.
7 Câu trả lời
- Ẩn danh10 năm trướcCâu trả lời yêu thích
Cindy, our destination on the day we are born into this world through our mother's womb is hell! We are all born dead in our trespasses and sins, into Satan's kingdom of darkness, serving Satan cut off from God and on our way to hell. That is every human being without exception, because we are born through Adam's transgression and sinful flesh into the wrong kingdom. That's why Jesus said we must be born all over again, the second time, not of our mother's womb through Adam, but of God, through Jesus Christ who is the only way to the Father (John 14:6).
In order for us to be delivered OUT OF Satan's kingdom of darkness and be translated INTO the kingdom of the Son of God's love (Colossians 1:13), we must be born again (John 3:3) of water (that's baptism) and Spirit (that's Holy Spirit). Unless we are born of water and Spirit, we CANNOT either see or enter God's kingdom.(John 3: 3 & 5).
I used to think we could be born again merely by belief in Jesus Christ but it's not true. During baptism, Jesus Himself comes with the Holy Spirit and Fire (Matt 3:11, Mark 1:4-8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33) and Himself washes us from our sins in His own blood (Rev 1:5)
During baptism into Christ's death and our burial with Him by baptism into death, God crucifies for us, our old man (old Adamic sin nature) (Romans 6:6) when He does away with the body of the sins of our flesh, which is circumcision of our old stoney heart of flesh and we are given a new heart of flesh and a new spirit, as prophesied by Ezekiel (36:26 and 11;19).
It's the washing in baptism which sanctifies and cleanses us so that He can present us (the church) to Himself, a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish etc. (Ephesians 5: 26 & 27).
When we repent and are baptised for the remission of our sins, we can then receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38) and He is the Spirit of Adoption who bears witness without spirit then, that we are true children of God (Romans 8: 15-17), because we are (only) all sons of God by faith in Christ Jesus and water baptism Cindy, according to Galatians 3: 26 & 27).
Baptism now also saves us.....through Christ's resurrection (1 Peter 3:21). We are saved by the washing of regeneration (that's water Baptism in Strong's) and renovation of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5). If as scripture states, baptism now saves us (1 Peter 3:21) - since Christ's death and resurrection, and there's only one way into God's kingdom, through Jesus Christ, then it must be by being water baptised INTO Him, as stated in Colossians 2: 11-13. We can't go through Jesus Christ unless we are IN HIM and baptism is the only way to be IN HIM, baptised INTO HIM.
He who believes AND IS BAPTISED SHALL BE SAVED (Mark 16:16). So in response to your question Cindy, we are born into Satan's kingdom on our way to hell dead spiritually in our Adamic sin nature cut off from God etc. If we do nothing to receive J.C. we will not be reconciled to God the Father, or become one of His children and we will automatically to hell in eternity. If we get born again in baptism, as Jesus Christ commanded (John 3:3-7, Matthew 28: 19 & 20), we will be made alive and saved by His grace & made to sit in the heavenlies etc (Ephesians 2: 1 & 5). I am probably running out of room but will send more if you wish.
- ?Lv 710 năm trước
The Soul that sinneth shall surely DIE ALL Sinnners shall go to hell upon death
ALL Born again blood washed children of God will go to Heaven
The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;
But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.
Lazarus died and went to heaven the rich man died and went to hell
And in hell he lift up his eyes , being in torments , and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
We are confident I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body , and to be present with the Lord .
This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise ( that was and is the Promise to ALL that believe on Jesus Christ )
It is written throughout the entire Bible both old and new, TRY reading it all
- Ẩn danh10 năm trước
M'r:12:27: He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
2Co:6:2: (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
- Ẩn danh6 năm trước
Firstly Hebrews 9:27-28 says"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation."
Everyone dies becuase of sin. Then here we read that just as we die once so we are to be judged. The good news is Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.
But in actual fact our eternal destination is already known to God from before the foundation of the world. God is eternal and those who will inherit the kingdom are those who's names are written in the lambs book of life Rev 13
Once a person dies in Christ they go to be with the Lord 2Cor 5:1-11. But again in fact we read that if we die with Him in this life we will be raised with Him at His coming. For He is our resurrection and life.
We identify with Chriat when we are baptised Rom 6 and Rom 8:17.
Jesus is judge of the living and the dead. 2Tim 4:1,1Pet 4:3-5.
Death and those in Hades are judged at the great white throne judgment Rev 20 These will go into the lake of fire tormented day and night.
There is no salvation after we die.
- Ẩn danh10 năm trước
the parable of the rich fool. luke 12;16ff
the rich man and lazarus in luke ,16:19 ff
those men had chosen to not want salvation , rather material wealth
- of Me of HimLv 610 năm trước
Please read slowly bare with my grammar. Thanks
Words tell a lot, death talks same as unto earth probable where we see r is removed and d is added, so “r” is what was removed in so as saying “word rolling” is removed from your life and “d” speaks as ‘coming heaven and earth” is all inclusive, which is sin. But when death to self by the will of us through the Spirit (God) in us, , we by life in Christ expelled darkness (dea-th) was no more, for by joining in Christ earth came a live truly if we are one in His Truly. His being the salvation that earth has put on as bring th em (him) into Resurrection. For it is not good to know Christ, or of just be in him; but in His in Christ perfect’s resurrection when the eye (salvation) is of Jews where death is no more
But yet by this saying also again, we are saved in death (as the figured truth of taking up our cross daily) and then resurrection where in death all came out from death in to life to hearing the word, for when faith to faith and face to face resurrection is inbound of the hearts at hand unto eternal life……‘Love never fails’ for they were now side to side, where the rib of the man was put back into man by the Spirit of the Holy Ones.
And just as it is appointed for people to die once--and after this, judgment-- (Hebrews 9:27 ( I like this HCSB interpretation of this scripture how it was laid out in the --)
Remember not one,’ one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass)
<< Matthew 5 >>
New American Standard Bible
________________________________________
18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches , he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
I like this (--) each one “-“ means eternal, unto life; but when two are in use it means two eternal so we can no death(“once--and”) see it takes the two in one Lord one Christ one God to prefect Love, which has no dea-th in it and after this, “judgment--“ as when this comes the second coming of will as “judgment--“ be on earth and heaven and the Judgment will accrue and what is-- but the same in the angels of the Son of man so that all will be as changed in the likeness of who His is in Christ be it eternal destination as all and in all, God.
I used Scripture words in this text I hope this help and the letter and stokes make it even closure to judgment-- of which Daniel spoke of just more insight.>>> (1290-1335)
11“From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, 1,290 days A-. 12“How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days! 13“But as for you, go to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise for your allotted portion at the end of the age
Carey
- PaulCypLv 710 năm trước
"You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved". (Matt 10:22(
"But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved". (Matt 24:13)
"You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved". (Mark 13:13)